John,

You have more posts in the last couple of days than credits / WU crunched, why is this an issue with you.

Because a lot of people threat to go away from this project with it's inflated credits on the boards of the bigger teams (Big in a BOINC sense, not only here or @Ralph). Fuzzys opinion is quite widespread. I havn't given up on this project yet, and a lot of my teammates probably sit and watch.
And John has some special interest as a volunteer developer of another science application (and afaik BOINC as well).

There are currently two hot topics on this subject by John McWhatever. He never saw Posting and You: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php

carl h, find some friends, have them each take the next 250 UserID slots higher than what I've chosen (I.E you do 10251-10,500, the next take the next 250, and the next, for each of the 5 groups) spend 3 days collecting the data, and we'll see what shows up. I'll even volunteer to collate the data after collection is finished. I'm for it. I'll send you the my file so we can all be on the same "sheet of music" as it were.

I've collected the first [edit]1.1% of the user data. Yes, my data represents [edit} 1.1% of the rosetta userbase (as counted by UserID slots, assuming 110,000 UserID slots exist).

There are currently two hot topics on this subject by John McWhatever. He never saw Posting and You: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting.php

He's seen it several times over @Seti, when it was pointed at some others, never at him;)

Morning all,
Two issues here, backdating and x-project equality. There is a thread on the latter, and the threads on the former are locked and/or finished.

If you still have opinions about the backdating decision, please use the moderator/project email sticky'd in number crunching. . . continuing it in the message boards will continue the jabs back and forth.

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There are two different issues:

a) backdating credits
b) making sure the new credit system obeys boinc project parity

As for b) the post from thierry sums it up very nicely and is indeed which we should aim for as well. I'm curious what Einstein will do, since at the moment they are the project which grants the most credits/hour.

As for a) this is a really difficult situation. As John stated correctly people operated under two different sets of rules. There are valid reasons to backdate as well as to not backdate. Furthermore this question considers fairness and justice as well as trust, reliability, consistency etc. from very different angles and there are two different viewpoints which both are valid. So I don't think one can come to a just decision. Backdating is seen by some as the only just way while others disagree. I don't think we will ever find a consensus on this and think under these circumstances it is the correct decision to leave the past behind and concentrate on making a fair system for the future.

I used the E@h optimized app (v4.24) when it was in test and get 176 credits per WU for +/- 8h30' of work. Then the credit decrease to 148 when the v4.24 became live, and we are now at 122 credits (still for 8h30').

NO BACK DATING. David Baker gave hiks word : NO BACK DATING!!!!!

Enough is Enough!!!!!!

There are two different issues:

a) backdating credits
b) making sure the new credit system obeys boinc project parity

As for b) the post from thierry sums it up very nicely and is indeed which we should aim for as well. I'm curious what Einstein will do, since at the moment they are the project which grants the most credits/hour.

As for a) this is a really difficult situation. As John stated correctly people operated under two different sets of rules. There are valid reasons to backdate as well as to not backdate. Furthermore this question considers fairness and justice as well as trust, reliability, consistency etc. from very different angles and there are two different viewpoints which both are valid. So I don't think one can come to a just decision. Backdating is seen by some as the only just way while others disagree. I don't think we will ever find a consensus on this and think under these circumstances it is the correct decision to leave the past behind and concentrate on making a fair system for the future.

I used the E@h optimized app (v4.24) when it was in test and get 176 credits per WU for +/- 8h30' of work. Then the credit decrease to 148 when the v4.24 became live, and we are now at 122 credits (still for 8h30').

Then go and stay in Einstein.
Enough of this !!!!!

I suppose it was the hope of D. Anderson. But ... this is theory, a good idea but theory.
You knon what can happen if you give the same tool or machine or idea or ... to ten guys and say 'Do xxx with it'. After a certain time ....

Edit: this was an answer for Carl (I need to type faster ;-))

Anderson can hope all he wants
Baker said it and gave his word : No Backdating

Time to grow up now people

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From Jose with the tinder removed:

I think the time to say this outloud has come:

Why are the people at Rosetta allowing this kind of rehasing of a close issue to continue?

Enough is Enough!!!

The Developers have given their word: NO BACKDATING!!!

And a fair warning: If they go back on their way now: the fire storm is going to be huge.

This issue is closed. Any new thread asking for BACKDATING is a deliberate attempt to disrupt this forum. As such it should be deleted!!!

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Time to grow up now people

Time to get these people who continue beat the dead horse of backdating to Stop.

Why is it allowed for Jose to shout and scream and denigrate, and others are modded for far less offensive posts?

Why is it allowed for Jose to shout and scream and denigrate, and others are modded for far less offensive posts?

I have seen this as well. Jose's 10 recent yelling posts are here but individual posts by other people are deleted.

Time to grow up now people

Time to get these people who continue beat the dead horse of backdating to Stop.

Have to agree, the dev's have made it clear that there will be no backdating at all so posting messages now asking for it to still go ahead is really not worth it, and is just making the situation get worse again

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Trust me, Jose wins the moderated list.

I'm locking this thread. It's going downhill fast, and the topic has been answered by the project. As I mentioned on the other backdating thread, feel free to send comments to the project directly via email.

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Trust me, Jose wins the moderated list.

I'm locking this thread. It's going downhill fast, and the topic has been answered by the project. As I mentioned on the other backdating thread, feel free to send comments to the project directly via email.

Can I get work credit for all the times you have moderated me? :Lame attempt at humor:

Jose, calm down, stop shouting.

As I see it, you have crunched less than Fuzzy, so by the argumentation of "less crunching, less posting" you should be quiet now.
I take it for granted that you use Crunch3rs client. So compared to Fuzzy you have to have at least 3 times as much credit for the same amount of science delivered. You have crunched more then me, in whatever credit system you use, that's for sure.

Why can't you just argue with facts and stop shouting?

Becuase this argument has been repeated several times and David Baker has specifically said there will be NO back dating.

Imagine that you were DDTUNG for instance, you have spent £50K on your computers, have relentlessly gone around re-benchmarking every machine every 5 days to ensure maximum points and you have kept this up for months, and then someone comes along and cuts your hard earned total to points based off of a guestimate score. You would feel very upset and annoyed.

This is one of the reasons people are feeling negative towrds rosetta at the moment. DB has said what will happen and so any thread like this effectively should be just stopped by a single message form a staff member saying DB has said what will happen end of discussion.

Fortunately this hasn't led to another flamewar yet but it's only a matter of time.

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There are projects outside of BOINC...

THIS IS NOT A FLAME, ok!

Backdating would have been an injustice. Why? When people joined months ago they joined under a certain modus operandi. ie: "it's OK to use opp. apps." This was not outlawed by Rosetta and was not cheating. If you change the rules RETROSEPCTIVELY then you are cheating those users which joined under those conditions earlier. Its like changing the terms of a contract that has already been signed. Its about equity when you examine it.

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I love Mr. Smith. He keeps us safe from Alien Scum. He's probably good a Rosetta too.

THIS IS NOT A FLAME, ok!

Backdating would have been an injustice. Why? When people joined months ago they joined under a certain modus operandi. ie: "it's OK to use opp. apps." This was not outlawed by Rosetta and was not cheating. If you change the rules RETROSEPCTIVELY then you are cheating those users which joined under those conditions earlier. Its like changing the terms of a contract that has already been signed. Its about equity when you examine it.

This is no flame as well, ok?

Backdating says at first nothing about the direction of the backdating, it can also be done to adjust the credits of those with stock clients to the "optimized" clients. It's mainly to something to "level the playing field", and to have comparable numbers in the stats.

I think it's common knowledge that the current system did not reflect the work done correctly, as the same amount of work has got very different amounts of credits granted.

Considering poeple are ignoring Ethan's lock I am going to aswell :p

One trouble I see with backdating is the fact that you will never be right the credit alterations would be based from a guestimate and to alter everyone's credit either way the person doing it would need to get information on every computer setup with every overclock to get it accurate. There would be too much hastle involved to end up with a highly inacurate points table. I think you will just have to live with the stats as they are and compete for now on getting the highest "fair credit system" RAC. In the grand schemee of things Rosetta is in it's infancy and to think we have got our total in about half a year it shouldn't take long for that to become a small dent in the totals. So in time it will all level out.

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There are projects outside of BOINC...