I am going to address here, some forum comments made elsewhere, so they do not get lost in the "noise".

The "standard" BOINC Web site has as part of it a forum system embedded within the remainder of the site. This software is used on all projects that I know of with a couple exceptions, namely

WCG
SIMAP

Who have elected to use phpBB.

CPDN has TWO forum systems, one from the days of the CLassic CPDN using phpBB and the standard BOINC version.

There are two prime reasons that the forum software system does not use phpBB and they are:

1) Integration with the BOINC Database for ID validation and restrictions based on credit balances, etc.; and,
2) security.

Because of its popularity and complexity, phpBB has been attacked on a regular basis and exploits, when found, are used to deface the system. Because it has many features that were potentially of little utility the BOINC developers decided to forgo the use of the more complex package in favor of a simpler system that was under their complete control.

CPDN does intend to keep the older phpBB system because many on the project are comfortable with it. However, there is recognition that there are some problems with it that the BOINC version does address. So, either choice is good, but brings good and bad.

For my part, I personally like the simplicity of the BOINC forums and can actually navigate better here. Again, partly it is what you are used to and what you become adapted to.

----
Einstein@Home made a change to use only standard forums and to not use the Q&P type pages on any forum. This is a popular choice but the removal of the Q&P format pages was rejected by Dr. Anderson when the change was suggested for the base system. His point was that the format was not broken and we should find out why it does not work. "Our" point is that the participants hate it and are not going to search the way he believes they should ... so ... there that stands ...

If a project wishes to deviate, they can, but, the effort is all on the project to make the changes locally ...

----
It is fine to want to separate the various things into neat categories. Experience has shown that for the most part, there is a strong resistance, or failure, on the part of posters to find the appropriate place to make the posts. So, we can have 200 great categories, but, stuff is going to be placed into the wrong spots anyway.

This is one of the reasons I have troubles with a lot of the phpBB systems, way too many forums and I can never seem to find the messages that *I* am interested in ... The same will be true here, add too many forums and you run the risk of dilution and loss of focus.

Einstein@Home did make a change, but if you look closely, they did not make too many new places, they just made a gentle adjustment. So, for the participants, be very careful of what you ask for, you may get it, but it may not be what you want ...

For the project, be very careful of what you implement ... you may not get what you want ... oh, and if you go non-standard, you now have to maintain more things by hand ... not a good option ...

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David Kim said

We realize the message boards have become unweildy and hard to manage, so we ask for and greatly appreciate help and constructive feeback.

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Not all Czech`s bounce but I`d like to try with Barbar ;-)

Make no mistake This IS the TEDDIES TEAM.

paul,

as informative as that history is, this thread is for ideas that Dr.Kim can use to improve the layout and organization of this board. would you please consider deleting your post here and reposting it in the *other* thread? or as an alternative, remove the history section and add some ideas of how this board should be sectioned so that information is easier to find? as smart as you are, i'm sure that won't be too hard for you to do.

It is fine to want to separate the various things into neat categories. Experience has shown that for the most part, there is a strong resistance, or failure, on the part of posters to find the appropriate place to make the posts. So, we can have 200 great categories, but, stuff is going to be placed into the wrong spots anyway.

maybe true, but that's no reason we have to put up with it!

and when this happens, it's the job of a moderator to move them, keeping things nice and tidy so when it needs to be referenced later it can be found.

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It is fine to want to separate the various things into neat categories. Experience has shown that for the most part, there is a strong resistance, or failure, on the part of posters to find the appropriate place to make the posts. So, we can have 200 great categories, but, stuff is going to be placed into the wrong spots anyway.

This is one of the reasons I have troubles with a lot of the phpBB systems, way too many forums and I can never seem to find the messages that *I* am interested in ... The same will be true here, add too many forums and you run the risk of dilution and loss of focus.

Nobody here is asking for 200 forums. Just a few more logical and easier to navigate.

The first 2 posters in this thread have made some excellent suggestions IMO. I would go along with either of those, or the best of both. But hey, I've only been here since the 29th of December and it seems I dont have the same rights as the 'old timers' of 3 months or so. ;-)

I see no need to do any code altering to create a few more forums as has been suggested elsewhere.

I think David Kim might agree too BTW and that is who I will take my lead from, instead of reading posts 3 miles long, when the same thing could be said in a couple of lines.

I think FC's suggestions are a good basis. The forums need to be easy to use by anyone, and I don't think the current layout with a seperate Q&A section is particularly intuitive or logical. I do think the FAQ section should stand as it's a good place for anyone to start - it could have the FAQs with the answers as links to the Wiki though.

Danny

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as informative as that history is, this thread is for ideas that Dr.Kim can use to improve the layout and organization of this board. would you please consider deleting your post here and reposting it in the *other* thread? or as an alternative, remove the history section and add some ideas of how this board should be sectioned so that information is easier to find? as smart as you are, i'm sure that won't be too hard for you to do.

And, though you don't like the history, or some of what I said ... the fact is that these are ideas too on how to improve things. One of the best improvements sometimes is to do nothing.

So, we have one group advocating changes, and I, well, maybe I am alone, but I do not see significant problems that requires much surgery if any. Of all the changes the only one I am in favor of is to copy the layout of Einstein@Home.

One of the points to BOINC was to come up with a common baseline. We defeat that if every project customizes the system so that it is unrecognizable. Because WCG and SIMAP use phpBB *I* don't go there ... I find it too hard to find the new posts and the posts I would be interested in reading and commenting on. Color me however you like, but, I am just suggesting that if Rosetta@Home gets TOO inventive they too may lose some of us ...

Lastly, altering from the baseline means that the project has to maintain these alterations into the future, making changes to each new release of the baseline code and testing them to make sure that they work still. If that is not a relevant idea I don't know what is ...

Oh, and once past 60 minutes the poster cannot make a change ...

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Carl.h said ---

Now listen Snake Doctor...

This post and the post that prompted it have been deleted as off topic.

This thread has been set as a sticky

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Moderator9
ROSETTA@home FAQ
Moderator Contact

One of the reasons the SIMAP forum is complicated is that it is Dual Language.....

Why does it always turn to slagging people off :(

e-nuff, thanks mod, please keep deleting :)


I would add, it's not the Q&A 'functionality' that is the problem I think it is the seperation from the 'community' part that is more of a problem. If they could get brought together into one page that would be better.

I'm also for keeping it simple AND to use the BOINC forum software, but with an easier layout. I don't like millions of sections myself.

Feel free to say why 'sections' shouldn't be here, Paul is a vaild post it'll help the staff make desitions.

After all they are just suggestions to the layout ;-)

More complicated things like Private Messages, Preview, Smilies, Display a maximum number of posts per page, RSSing sections should be put through to the Forum Developers at Boinc.

[Chill, don't take everything so seriously... It's just a forum]

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Team mauisun.org

...I would add, it's not the Q&A 'functionality' that is the problem I think it is the seperation from the 'community' part that is more of a problem. If they could get brought together into one page that would be better.

You have hit the nail on the head, but with the wrong end of the hammer I'm afraid. It is precisely that feature, i.e. the clear separation from the community part (and threads like you-know-which-one-I-mean!), that makes the Q&A section so easily found and readily accessible for non-techies and newbies. The very fact that they are clearly separated makes it easier for simple folk to overcome their inhibitions and their fear of making fools of themselves. Please please try and appreciate that!!!

Not everybody crunching here has your technical skills and worldly experience. Why make things more difficult for newbies just because you are of the opinion one page would be "better"? "Better" and neater for you maybe, but not necessarily for them. Have a think about the best way these boards can serve them, not just you (collective!)...

<assorted smilies>

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The pirates project is looking at ways of changing the boards, specifically for use on schools-type projects. How far this is useful for the BOINC mainstream remains to be seen, but anyone with ideas on the BOINC bulltetin boards might like to sign up and make suggestions there, and you never know they might get tried out...

They already have a nonstandard set of forums anyway.

Here are some relevant threads over there:

New accounts

Pirates' new mission

Wish list - forums

You will also need to be able to enjoy, or at least tolerate, a piratical sense of humour, avast ye!

grrravie~~~

Sorry for the lack of warning! we switched to one week for just the reason you point out--we want to analyze the results and be able to draw conclusions as soon as possible!

another change is that the maximum work unit length has been increased to eliminate (hopefully!) the time out problem.

This is a great example for having an Announcements section in the Message Boards, with maybe a quick link into it from the News notices on the project's main page. ;)

---

Regards,
Bob P.

Sorry for the lack of warning! we switched to one week for just the reason you point out--we want to analyze the results and be able to draw conclusions as soon as possible!

another change is that the maximum work unit length has been increased to eliminate (hopefully!) the time out problem.

This is a great example for having an Announcements section in the Message Boards, with maybe a quick link into it from the News notices on the project's main page. ;)

I respectfully disagree. The News section on the home page is the perfect place for this type of thing - a quick couple of lines that something has changed.
Anything more comprehensive can be put in the Technical News section.

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Proudly Banned from Predictator@Home and now Cosmology@home as well. Added SETI to the list today. Temporary ban only - so need to work harder :)



"You can't fix stupid" (Ron White)

Sorry for the lack of warning! we switched to one week for just the reason you point out--we want to analyze the results and be able to draw conclusions as soon as possible!

another change is that the maximum work unit length has been increased to eliminate (hopefully!) the time out problem.

This is a great example for having an Announcements section in the Message Boards, with maybe a quick link into it from the News notices on the project's main page. ;)

I respectfully disagree. The News section on the home page is the perfect place for this type of thing - a quick couple of lines that something has changed.
Anything more comprehensive can be put in the Technical News section.

Why is the home page so important? All the "action" is in the fora. I believe there should be a News/Announcements section in the fora which is linked to from the home page. But daily I go to the fora to see what is happening and I NEVER go to the home page. In short, the simplest and fastest avenue to the latest and greatest news and discussions is to bring up a browser and go straight to the fora, from which you can get to everything else (IMO).

Sorry for the lack of warning! we switched to one week for just the reason you point out--we want to analyze the results and be able to draw conclusions as soon as possible!

another change is that the maximum work unit length has been increased to eliminate (hopefully!) the time out problem.

This is a great example for having an Announcements section in the Message Boards, with maybe a quick link into it from the News notices on the project's main page. ;)

I respectfully disagree. The News section on the home page is the perfect place for this type of thing - a quick couple of lines that something has changed.
Anything more comprehensive can be put in the Technical News section.

Why is the home page so important? All the "action" is in the fora. I believe there should be a News/Announcements section in the fora which is linked to from the home page. But daily I go to the fora to see what is happening and I NEVER go to the home page. In short, the simplest and fastest avenue to the latest and greatest news and discussions is to bring up a browser and go straight to the fora, from which you can get to everything else (IMO).

Again, Rosetta is using the standard forum that is integral to the BOINC product.
News and Technical News are located on the Home Page.

It really annoys me when people take the complete text of a News or Technical News article and paste it into a new thread in the forum. At least one other BOINC forum is rife with that, and personally I would not like to see that habit replicated here.

Simply point your shortcut/favorite to the Home Page, and you are only one click away from the forums, with the added benefit of seeing the late-breaking news.

Additionally, the News then doesn't get lost in the forest of other threads competing for attention. It also provides a historical continuity of News in one place.

There is always the RSS feed if you need the latest up-to-the minute News.

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Proudly Banned from Predictator@Home and now Cosmology@home as well. Added SETI to the list today. Temporary ban only - so need to work harder :)



"You can't fix stupid" (Ron White)

I believe there should be a News/Announcements section in the fora which is linked to from the home page.

I agree, this seems to work both for people who link to the home page and to those who link to the fora.

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Regards,
Bob P.

It really annoys me when people take the complete text of a News or Technical News article and paste it into a new thread in the forum.

I don't know why anyone does that either except that maybe News/Announcements isn't part of the msg boards.

Simply point your shortcut/favorite to the Home Page, and you are only one click away...

Then it won't matter if instead I go directly to the msg boards and THERE I find a category for News/Announcements.

Additionally, the News then doesn't get lost in the forest of other threads competing for attention.

With its own msg board category it won't be lost in the msg threads of, say, Number Crunching.

All I'm suggesting is that the Home Page is a facade to the outside world where Rosetta can identify itself, give its sales pitch for new members, show server status, whatever. But after a person joins Rosetta I presume they routinely go to the msg boards to find out what is happening. Once everyone decides what kind of categories should be in the msg boards to best serve its members, I see no need to go to the Home Page. I think News/Announcements should be one of the msg board categories.
(edit typos)

These are the general "roll ups" of the conversation to date. The numbers are approximations as it is not easy to separate from all of the conversation, the specific suggestion the posts are presenting. But for a general idea of where this is heading the information is close enough.

I will be moving a number of the posts from the other thread to this thread, I am not deleting anything they will all only be moved, as most contain more discussion that specific suggestions. Please keep your posts to this thread, short and specific to the suggestion, with as little discussion as possible to describe your idea. If you want the project team to work on this then it must be easy for then to gather up in a few moments of reading the thread.

As of 25/1/06, 18:50 UTC - Users asking for change - 9 Users asking for no change - 6

Details

1) I believe there should be a News/Announcements section in the fora which is linked to from the home page. -2 in favor - Against - N/A
2) Eliminate the separate - question and answers link or move it - in favor -3 Against - 2
3) move the "add ons" link from returning participants - in favor 1 Against - N/A
4) Forum Developers at Boinc should make the changes - In Favor 4 Against - N/A
5) This forum should look more like Einstein@Home - In favor - 3 Against - N/A
6) Add a Wish list to the main boards - In Favor - 1 Against - N/A


Concepts Presented

User FluffyChicken Submits
(Add sections to single forum)

- Official Announcements and Happenings
- FAQ
- Rosetta Science
- Help & Support
- Number Crunching
- Suggestions & Feedback
- Robeta (R@H Beta testing)
- Cafe Rosetta
- Team Chat
- BOINC


User Vavega Submits
(configure boards as follows)

official project news
technical news
new and articles about rosetta
BOINC/Rosetta links
move the "add ons" link from returning participants to here what a wonderful resource that i just found!
BOINCview
BOINC manager
BOINC wiki....etc

member to member support
(within member to member support)
windows
unix/linux
macintosh
sugggestions
cafe rosetta
team recruiting
statistics

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Moderator9
ROSETTA@home FAQ
Moderator Contact

I think the News/ Announcements is as NBIT say`s the public facade of the project, it`s information is limited and I`d like to see a section devoted to a more in depth field.

There is information here if you hunt for it, such as what the science team is looking at regard bandwidth etc. What most people want here is information quickly ie., I`ve got a problem ...help...or I`ve got a problem...is it being looked at ?

The thing I have found most difficult with this forum is digging out the official view of things. It is extremely difficult at times when reading through a thread to see at a glance whom is posting, the official badges are bland. A section of news from an official source or as is happening at the moment thanks to Mods that news gathered and posted as sticky`s. They can often miss what I want to see though.

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Not all Czech`s bounce but I`d like to try with Barbar ;-)

Make no mistake This IS the TEDDIES TEAM.

Per Paul D Buck, formerly of this forum:

One of the best improvements sometimes is to do nothing.

So, we have one group advocating changes, and I, well, maybe I am alone, but I do not see significant problems that requires much surgery if any. Of all the changes the only one I am in favor of is to copy the layout of Einstein@Home.

One of the points to BOINC was to come up with a common baseline. We defeat that if every project customizes the system so that it is unrecognizable. Because WCG and SIMAP use phpBB *I* don't go there ... I find it too hard to find the new posts and the posts I would be interested in reading and commenting on. Color me however you like, but, I am just suggesting that if Rosetta@Home gets TOO inventive they too may lose some of us ...

Lastly, altering from the baseline means that the project has to maintain these alterations into the future, making changes to each new release of the baseline code and testing them to make sure that they work still. If that is not a relevant idea I don't know what is ...

---

Proudly Banned from Predictator@Home and now Cosmology@home as well. Added SETI to the list today. Temporary ban only - so need to work harder :)



"You can't fix stupid" (Ron White)